1 00:00:00,434 --> 00:00:04,370 the people are represented by two separate 2 00:00:04,372 --> 00:00:05,905 yet equally important groups: 3 00:00:05,906 --> 00:00:07,439 The police, who investigate crime 4 00:00:07,441 --> 00:00:10,309 and the district attorneys, who prosecute the offenders. 5 00:00:10,311 --> 00:00:13,045 These are their stories. 6 00:00:16,584 --> 00:00:19,351 Please, Missus, call the doctor. 7 00:00:19,353 --> 00:00:22,254 Cora, her temperature's down. 8 00:00:22,256 --> 00:00:23,288 She's not getting better. 9 00:00:23,290 --> 00:00:25,424 Waking her won't help. 10 00:00:25,426 --> 00:00:28,627 A doctor, an ambulance, 911-- you have to do something. 11 00:00:28,629 --> 00:00:30,229 You're being crazy. 12 00:00:30,231 --> 00:00:31,463 I want you to get your things. 13 00:00:31,465 --> 00:00:34,466 My husband will send you a check. 14 00:00:34,468 --> 00:00:37,403 ( child wheezing lightly ) 15 00:00:39,106 --> 00:00:40,572 ( car horn honking ) 16 00:00:43,310 --> 00:00:46,512 Help, please! Help! 17 00:00:46,514 --> 00:00:50,482 Help! Help! 18 00:00:50,484 --> 00:00:53,118 Please, stop! 19 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:55,354 What do you want, honey? 20 00:00:55,356 --> 00:00:56,422 Mrs. Driscoll. 21 00:00:56,424 --> 00:00:57,823 Yes? 22 00:00:57,825 --> 00:00:59,591 I'm Officer Barton, this is Officer Giordano. 23 00:00:59,593 --> 00:01:01,126 How are you doing? 24 00:01:01,128 --> 00:01:03,595 Your housekeeper says you may have an emergency? 25 00:01:03,597 --> 00:01:06,298 Mrs. Amado tends to overreact. 26 00:01:06,300 --> 00:01:07,299 Do you mind? 27 00:01:07,301 --> 00:01:08,434 Could we just come in 28 00:01:08,436 --> 00:01:09,535 and take a peek at your daughter? 29 00:01:09,537 --> 00:01:11,370 That really isn't necessary. 30 00:01:11,372 --> 00:01:13,405 We'll just be in and out. 31 00:01:13,407 --> 00:01:15,407 Excuse me, ma'am. 32 00:01:15,409 --> 00:01:18,177 She's been a little feverish. 33 00:01:21,415 --> 00:01:22,381 ( wheezing ) 34 00:01:22,383 --> 00:01:24,249 Lady, this kid can't breathe. 35 00:01:24,251 --> 00:01:25,684 2-7 Charlie to Central K. 36 00:01:25,686 --> 00:01:27,653 Go ahead, Charlie. DISPATCHER: 37 00:01:27,655 --> 00:01:29,488 Did you call it in? 38 00:01:29,490 --> 00:01:32,257 Policy is firm: only the chief resident-- me-- 39 00:01:32,259 --> 00:01:33,358 can call the cops on parents. 40 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,427 Listen, is this kid going to make it? 41 00:01:35,429 --> 00:01:37,629 Strep, fever 105 plus-- 42 00:01:37,631 --> 00:01:40,265 what kind of parent doesn't know that's life-threatening? 43 00:01:40,267 --> 00:01:41,633 So, on the record, the hospital's going to make 44 00:01:41,635 --> 00:01:43,168 a formal child abuse complaint? 45 00:01:43,170 --> 00:01:45,204 Yes, neglect. 46 00:01:45,206 --> 00:01:46,405 You can't do this. 47 00:01:46,407 --> 00:01:48,373 I want to take my daughter home. 48 00:01:48,375 --> 00:01:50,342 Ms. Driscoll, this is Dr. Fisher, the chief resident. 49 00:01:50,344 --> 00:01:51,810 She won't authorize a trach. 50 00:01:51,811 --> 00:01:53,277 And if I don't sign an authorization, 51 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:54,863 you can't treat her. 52 00:01:54,864 --> 00:01:56,447 This is Sergeant Cerreta and Detective Logan. 53 00:01:56,450 --> 00:01:57,900 More policemen? 54 00:01:57,901 --> 00:01:59,351 You're not leaving us any choice. 55 00:01:59,353 --> 00:02:01,320 You seem like a reasonable woman. 56 00:02:01,322 --> 00:02:03,188 You want to tell us what the problem is? 57 00:02:03,190 --> 00:02:04,389 Your husband here tonight, ma'am? 58 00:02:04,391 --> 00:02:06,558 No, he's in Boston on business. 59 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:08,694 Well, you know, you understand if the hospital 60 00:02:08,696 --> 00:02:12,297 files a formal complaint, you could find yourself in jail. 61 00:02:12,299 --> 00:02:14,633 You can't force me to let you operate. 62 00:02:14,635 --> 00:02:16,335 Are you serious? 63 00:02:16,337 --> 00:02:17,369 These people are trying 64 00:02:17,371 --> 00:02:19,171 to save your daughter's life. 65 00:02:19,173 --> 00:02:21,473 Right now, I am more concerned about her soul. 66 00:02:21,475 --> 00:02:23,475 Mrs. Driscoll, let us help Dinah. 67 00:02:23,477 --> 00:02:24,543 You can't help her. 68 00:02:24,545 --> 00:02:26,712 We don't believe in modern medicine. 69 00:02:26,714 --> 00:02:28,614 You don't believe in it? 70 00:02:28,616 --> 00:02:31,450 Our religion forbids it. 71 00:02:31,452 --> 00:02:34,453 Code blue, E.R. Pediatrics. WOMAN ( over PA system ): 72 00:02:34,455 --> 00:02:36,722 Code blue, E.R. Pediatrics. 73 00:02:40,728 --> 00:02:42,394 MAN: Excuse me, Miss. 74 00:02:42,396 --> 00:02:43,362 Step back. 75 00:02:43,364 --> 00:02:44,396 Get her intubated. 76 00:02:44,398 --> 00:02:45,631 1.8 milliliter epi. 77 00:02:45,633 --> 00:02:47,666 1/1,000 solution I.V. push now. 78 00:02:47,668 --> 00:02:49,568 Let's get a central line in here. 79 00:02:49,570 --> 00:02:51,270 Who's the pharmacist? 80 00:02:51,272 --> 00:02:53,238 WOMAN: Now, now! 81 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,775 Let's go with 18 watts per second. 82 00:02:56,777 --> 00:02:57,943 WOMAN: Level off. 83 00:02:57,945 --> 00:03:00,379 MAN: Take the mask off. 84 00:03:00,381 --> 00:03:03,749 Clear. ( sharp thud ) 85 00:03:03,751 --> 00:03:06,385 Still no pulse. 86 00:03:06,387 --> 00:03:08,420 Clear. 87 00:03:10,491 --> 00:03:11,557 Clear. 88 00:03:22,436 --> 00:03:25,204 She wasn't that sick! 89 00:03:41,222 --> 00:03:44,323 She wasn't that sick. 90 00:03:48,996 --> 00:03:53,298 Captioning sponsored by NBC/UNIVERSAL 91 00:04:22,596 --> 00:04:25,597 ¶ ¶ 92 00:04:55,796 --> 00:05:01,433 ¶ ¶ 93 00:05:12,913 --> 00:05:14,513 It's your call. 94 00:05:14,515 --> 00:05:15,847 CERRETA: get her for can 95 00:05:15,849 --> 00:05:17,549 is endangering the welfare of a child. 96 00:05:17,551 --> 00:05:19,818 No, no, what we get her for is manslaughter. 97 00:05:19,820 --> 00:05:21,620 Whoa, Mike, slow down. 98 00:05:21,622 --> 00:05:23,222 We don't get her for anything 99 00:05:23,223 --> 00:05:24,823 you don't prove she knew the kid was seriously ill. 100 00:05:24,825 --> 00:05:26,558 All right, the housekeeper-- what's her name-- 101 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:28,694 Amado, she knew damn well the kid was sick enough 102 00:05:28,696 --> 00:05:30,162 to get two cops. 103 00:05:30,163 --> 00:05:31,629 Oh, that will put the parents away for sure. 104 00:05:31,632 --> 00:05:33,532 She was fired; she'll say anything. 105 00:05:33,534 --> 00:05:34,733 Getting fired-- you think that's a reason 106 00:05:34,735 --> 00:05:35,767 to lie about the kid? 107 00:05:35,769 --> 00:05:37,052 You believe this? 108 00:05:37,053 --> 00:05:38,336 Hey, what I think, what you think, 109 00:05:38,339 --> 00:05:40,339 What he thinks don't mean diddly-squat, 110 00:05:40,341 --> 00:05:41,540 because in court, 111 00:05:41,542 --> 00:05:42,574 she's not a credible witness. 112 00:05:42,576 --> 00:05:43,742 Credible?! The kid died! 113 00:05:43,744 --> 00:05:45,677 Well, well, what's this? 114 00:05:45,679 --> 00:05:47,613 Honeymoon over? 115 00:05:47,614 --> 00:05:49,548 When you're finished debating her state of mind, 116 00:05:49,550 --> 00:05:52,151 why don't you go ask her, 117 00:05:52,152 --> 00:05:54,753 and see what you can find out about this religion 118 00:05:54,755 --> 00:05:56,121 Church of All Saints. 119 00:05:59,793 --> 00:06:01,793 Beautiful child. 120 00:06:01,795 --> 00:06:03,128 You worked for the Driscolls 121 00:06:03,130 --> 00:06:04,696 what, three months? 122 00:06:04,698 --> 00:06:06,665 Mm-hmm. They loved that child. 123 00:06:06,667 --> 00:06:09,968 It was an aura, it radiated from them. 124 00:06:09,970 --> 00:06:12,871 You never saw people who loved a child so much. 125 00:06:12,873 --> 00:06:14,773 When did she get sick? 126 00:06:14,775 --> 00:06:15,941 AMADO: Monday morning, when I come in, 127 00:06:15,943 --> 00:06:16,975 She already had a fever. 128 00:06:16,977 --> 00:06:18,910 Mrs. Driscoll, she wasn't worried. 129 00:06:18,912 --> 00:06:21,413 She said she was praying for her. 130 00:06:21,415 --> 00:06:23,415 But you were worried. 131 00:06:23,417 --> 00:06:27,085 My kids, they get sick, I pray for their souls. 132 00:06:27,087 --> 00:06:29,087 Their bodies, I get a doctor. 133 00:06:29,089 --> 00:06:30,822 Oberon Guzman, I called him 134 00:06:30,824 --> 00:06:32,691 and told him the fever keeps going up. 135 00:06:32,693 --> 00:06:34,826 Did you tell Mrs. Driscoll that? 136 00:06:36,764 --> 00:06:41,133 And she told me that sometimes kids just had to get sicker 137 00:06:41,135 --> 00:06:44,903 before the Lord heard their prayers. 138 00:06:46,840 --> 00:06:48,640 You want me to visit a sick child 139 00:06:48,642 --> 00:06:49,841 when the parent won't call? 140 00:06:49,843 --> 00:06:52,043 When the child's dying, yes, I do. 141 00:06:52,045 --> 00:06:56,081 My malpractice insurance is already 20 times my rent. 142 00:06:56,083 --> 00:07:00,852 I do not go to any child against their parents' wishes. 143 00:07:00,854 --> 00:07:02,421 Did Mrs. Amado 144 00:07:02,423 --> 00:07:04,055 describe the girl's symptoms? 145 00:07:04,057 --> 00:07:07,726 Sore throat, high fever, trouble breathing. 146 00:07:07,728 --> 00:07:09,127 A second-year medical student 147 00:07:09,129 --> 00:07:11,930 could have made an educated guess it was strep throat. 148 00:07:11,932 --> 00:07:13,698 Do you consider that major? 149 00:07:13,700 --> 00:07:14,866 Untreated? 150 00:07:14,868 --> 00:07:17,135 It could lead to rheumatic fever, 151 00:07:17,137 --> 00:07:19,871 heart disease, death. 152 00:07:19,873 --> 00:07:21,006 So a parent refusing treatment... 153 00:07:21,008 --> 00:07:22,107 Would have to be stupid, 154 00:07:22,109 --> 00:07:24,643 blind, or negligent. 155 00:07:24,645 --> 00:07:26,445 Or very religious. 156 00:07:28,081 --> 00:07:31,950 MINISTER: from the Swiss brethren 157 00:07:31,952 --> 00:07:34,686 like the Amish or the Hutterites. 158 00:07:34,688 --> 00:07:36,755 Except that you don't use doctors. 159 00:07:36,757 --> 00:07:38,990 We've been around for 300 years, 160 00:07:38,992 --> 00:07:40,692 long before modern medicine. 161 00:07:40,694 --> 00:07:42,194 Hold on. 162 00:07:42,196 --> 00:07:44,029 You use electricity, central heating. 163 00:07:44,031 --> 00:07:46,698 You were around long before them, too. 164 00:07:46,700 --> 00:07:49,468 Detective, do I really have to defend 165 00:07:49,470 --> 00:07:51,736 my religious beliefs to the police? 166 00:07:52,906 --> 00:07:55,941 Are you arresting Ted and Nancy? 167 00:07:55,943 --> 00:07:59,244 Have they been in your church long? 168 00:07:59,246 --> 00:08:01,380 Many years. 169 00:08:01,381 --> 00:08:03,515 They were members when we were out in Hanover, New Jersey. 170 00:08:03,517 --> 00:08:04,883 They're devout people. 171 00:08:04,885 --> 00:08:07,719 The loss of their daughter was terrible, 172 00:08:07,721 --> 00:08:10,222 but it is God's will. 173 00:08:10,223 --> 00:08:12,724 Most of us don't mind a little help from antibiotics. 174 00:08:12,726 --> 00:08:14,926 But some of us do. 175 00:08:14,928 --> 00:08:16,545 Did the Driscolls 176 00:08:16,546 --> 00:08:18,163 talk to you while Dinah was sick? 177 00:08:18,165 --> 00:08:19,798 Ted and Nancy never believed 178 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:22,067 that their daughter was sick enough to die. 179 00:08:22,069 --> 00:08:26,004 All you have to do is talk to them to know that. 180 00:08:26,940 --> 00:08:28,940 Fanatics. 181 00:08:28,942 --> 00:08:30,242 It's not that simple. 182 00:08:30,244 --> 00:08:31,843 These people aren't Moonies. 183 00:08:31,845 --> 00:08:33,144 You go to confession, take communion. 184 00:08:33,146 --> 00:08:35,213 They believe just as strongly as you do. 185 00:08:35,215 --> 00:08:36,248 Come on, that's crap. 186 00:08:36,250 --> 00:08:37,949 How can you compare these wackos... 187 00:08:37,951 --> 00:08:39,618 Wackos? A lot of non-Catholics 188 00:08:39,619 --> 00:08:41,286 believe it's wacko for priests not to marry. 189 00:08:41,288 --> 00:08:43,088 A lot of non-Fundamentalists 190 00:08:43,090 --> 00:08:45,957 believe it's wacko to take the Bible literally. 191 00:08:45,959 --> 00:08:47,759 To the Driscolls, losing this kid's soul 192 00:08:47,761 --> 00:08:49,728 is worse than losing her life. 193 00:08:49,730 --> 00:08:51,463 Except we're investigating 194 00:08:51,464 --> 00:08:53,197 the death of a little girl, not a soul. 195 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:56,268 The church doesn't make exceptions. 196 00:08:56,270 --> 00:08:59,871 The rules are God's, not ours. 197 00:08:59,873 --> 00:09:01,973 We don't pollute our bodies. 198 00:09:01,975 --> 00:09:03,275 We don't smoke, we don't use medicine 199 00:09:03,277 --> 00:09:04,809 and we don't use doctors. 200 00:09:04,811 --> 00:09:05,944 LOGAN: So if you're having a heart attack, 201 00:09:05,946 --> 00:09:07,846 you don't call an ambulance? 202 00:09:07,848 --> 00:09:10,248 Is that so difficult for you to accept? 203 00:09:10,250 --> 00:09:11,983 CERRETA: Excuse me, Mrs. Driscoll 204 00:09:11,985 --> 00:09:13,051 we have to ask. 205 00:09:13,053 --> 00:09:15,754 Did you consider calling a doctor? 206 00:09:15,756 --> 00:09:18,223 We should have prayed harder. 207 00:09:18,225 --> 00:09:20,859 Maybe it's our fault. 208 00:09:20,861 --> 00:09:22,260 It's faith. 209 00:09:22,262 --> 00:09:23,862 That's what religion is. 210 00:09:23,864 --> 00:09:25,230 LOGAN: You call that religion? 211 00:09:25,232 --> 00:09:27,065 Neglecting a dying child? 212 00:09:27,067 --> 00:09:29,868 Now, you see, I call that irresponsible. 213 00:09:29,870 --> 00:09:31,236 Mike. 214 00:09:31,238 --> 00:09:32,571 Sorry. 215 00:09:32,573 --> 00:09:33,872 We're used to it. 216 00:09:33,874 --> 00:09:35,574 Is that all? 217 00:09:35,576 --> 00:09:37,108 There's just one thing. 218 00:09:37,110 --> 00:09:40,078 You were gone Wednesday and Thursday? 219 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:41,980 I had no choice. 220 00:09:41,982 --> 00:09:45,850 Look, we talked three or four times a day. 221 00:09:45,852 --> 00:09:47,285 Dinah's fever was down. 222 00:09:47,287 --> 00:09:49,588 Nancy thought she was better. 223 00:09:49,590 --> 00:09:51,823 Our prayers were working. 224 00:09:51,825 --> 00:09:54,225 At any time, over the five or six days, 225 00:09:54,227 --> 00:09:55,860 did you get any help for Dinah? 226 00:09:55,862 --> 00:09:57,829 Of course we did. 227 00:09:57,831 --> 00:10:02,267 Sharon Barlow-- she's a church medical practitioner. 228 00:10:02,269 --> 00:10:04,636 Do you have any medical training? 229 00:10:04,638 --> 00:10:07,272 Any chemistry, biology, first aid, anything? 230 00:10:07,274 --> 00:10:08,873 Church training. 231 00:10:08,875 --> 00:10:10,976 Spiritual healing. 232 00:10:10,978 --> 00:10:13,412 Mm-hmm. 233 00:10:13,413 --> 00:10:15,847 So, then, you're what-- a kind of nurse? 234 00:10:17,851 --> 00:10:21,920 You think I don't know what's going on here, Detective? 235 00:10:21,922 --> 00:10:25,190 Your job is to prosecute our church. 236 00:10:25,192 --> 00:10:28,860 If you believed what we believe, you'd understand. 237 00:10:28,862 --> 00:10:31,096 We are trying to find out what you believe. 238 00:10:31,098 --> 00:10:32,831 Help us out. 239 00:10:32,833 --> 00:10:36,001 We treat the sick with prayer. 240 00:10:36,003 --> 00:10:38,370 We tried everything 241 00:10:38,372 --> 00:10:39,938 to lower her fever. 242 00:10:39,940 --> 00:10:42,874 We prayed, cold baths. 243 00:10:42,876 --> 00:10:44,943 We fed her, we used rubbing alcohol. 244 00:10:44,945 --> 00:10:47,646 When we ran out, we called the drugstore 245 00:10:47,648 --> 00:10:48,913 for more. Drugstore? 246 00:10:48,915 --> 00:10:49,848 Which one? 247 00:10:49,850 --> 00:10:52,083 ( scoffs ) 248 00:10:52,085 --> 00:10:54,919 I think I have the receipt. 249 00:11:04,264 --> 00:11:07,098 Tax deduction, huh? 250 00:11:07,100 --> 00:11:09,100 What did those people do? 251 00:11:09,102 --> 00:11:11,102 It was rubbing alcohol, man, not speed. 252 00:11:11,104 --> 00:11:12,971 Hey, look, you remember them or what? 253 00:11:12,973 --> 00:11:15,707 Oh, yeah, guy opens the door, he's holding a kid 254 00:11:15,709 --> 00:11:17,142 two ladies, they're picking at each other. 255 00:11:17,144 --> 00:11:18,977 All right, so what did they look like? 256 00:11:18,979 --> 00:11:21,179 This old lady, she's telling the mom 257 00:11:21,181 --> 00:11:22,313 "Pray harder, the kid will get better" 258 00:11:22,315 --> 00:11:24,949 "believe in God"-- that kind of stuff. 259 00:11:24,951 --> 00:11:26,051 Start again. 260 00:11:26,053 --> 00:11:27,952 Praying or fighting? 261 00:11:27,954 --> 00:11:29,988 Fighting, man, fighting 262 00:11:29,990 --> 00:11:31,956 The father tells them to keep it down, 263 00:11:31,958 --> 00:11:34,893 gives the kid to the old lady, and he pays me. 264 00:11:34,895 --> 00:11:36,094 But you kept listening, right? 265 00:11:36,096 --> 00:11:38,296 I couldn't help it; the elevator was busted, 266 00:11:38,298 --> 00:11:39,998 so I had to take the stairs. 267 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,033 Now, the apartment door's still open. 268 00:11:42,035 --> 00:11:46,137 Then, the woman, the young one, she jets by me. 269 00:11:49,342 --> 00:11:51,009 MAN: 87 Apartments. 270 00:11:51,011 --> 00:11:53,011 You think I see everybody who comes and goes? 271 00:11:53,013 --> 00:11:56,081 CERRETA: How long you been on this door, Mike? 272 00:11:56,083 --> 00:11:58,166 31 Years. 273 00:11:58,167 --> 00:12:00,250 You know what time every man, woman, and child in here pees. 274 00:12:00,253 --> 00:12:04,022 Thursday, 10:00, Mrs. Driscoll. 275 00:12:04,024 --> 00:12:06,925 She ran by crying, face all puffy. 276 00:12:06,927 --> 00:12:08,493 Look, their kid's dead. 277 00:12:08,495 --> 00:12:10,028 They don't need more trouble. 278 00:12:10,030 --> 00:12:11,996 Did you see which way she went? 279 00:12:11,998 --> 00:12:14,299 ( sighs ) Coffee shop on the corner. 280 00:12:14,301 --> 00:12:16,735 5'6", brunette. 281 00:12:16,737 --> 00:12:19,204 Which one of the four million you have in mind? 282 00:12:19,206 --> 00:12:20,739 She might have been crying. 283 00:12:20,741 --> 00:12:22,373 The food here, no wonder. 284 00:12:22,375 --> 00:12:23,374 Elaine! 285 00:12:23,376 --> 00:12:24,509 Tuesday night, 10:00. 286 00:12:24,511 --> 00:12:27,245 You see a brunette in here crying? 287 00:12:27,247 --> 00:12:28,780 What did she do? 288 00:12:28,782 --> 00:12:30,432 Did you wait on her? 289 00:12:30,433 --> 00:12:32,083 I tried to get her to eat something, 290 00:12:32,085 --> 00:12:33,384 stop crying. 291 00:12:33,386 --> 00:12:36,254 No sale. Only coffee-- three cups, 292 00:12:36,256 --> 00:12:38,123 spiked with bourbon. 293 00:12:43,196 --> 00:12:44,729 Mm-hmm. Freedom of religion, 294 00:12:44,730 --> 00:12:46,263 that gives you the right to commit homicide? 295 00:12:46,266 --> 00:12:49,200 The penal law allows a single affirmative defense 296 00:12:49,202 --> 00:12:50,802 to endangering the welfare of a child-- 297 00:12:50,804 --> 00:12:52,937 spiritual healing by an organized religion. 298 00:12:52,939 --> 00:12:54,806 That's in the law? 299 00:12:54,808 --> 00:12:57,108 In '73, Congress passed a child abuse bill, 300 00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:59,444 $85 million to the states. 301 00:12:59,446 --> 00:13:02,213 ATW regulations said any state 302 00:13:02,215 --> 00:13:04,516 without a spiritual healing exemption didn't get money. 303 00:13:04,518 --> 00:13:06,918 This is unbelievable. 304 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:08,253 In New York? 305 00:13:08,255 --> 00:13:10,221 And 43 other states. 306 00:13:10,223 --> 00:13:11,823 But the law says endangering. 307 00:13:11,825 --> 00:13:13,358 These people let the kid die. 308 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,226 To convict on manslaughter? 309 00:13:15,228 --> 00:13:16,494 A couple of steps. 310 00:13:16,496 --> 00:13:18,797 First, convince the jury not to apply 311 00:13:18,799 --> 00:13:20,465 the spiritual healing defense to homicide. 312 00:13:20,467 --> 00:13:23,168 Convince them? Hell, the judge will just tell them not to. 313 00:13:23,170 --> 00:13:24,536 You know juries. 314 00:13:24,538 --> 00:13:26,838 They'll do whatever they think is right. 315 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,508 Next, prove the parents didn't believe prayer would work. 316 00:13:30,510 --> 00:13:31,976 Forget that. 317 00:13:31,978 --> 00:13:33,444 No matter what we think of their religion, 318 00:13:33,446 --> 00:13:35,213 it's obvious they believed in it, 319 00:13:35,215 --> 00:13:36,915 and they believed their kid wasn't sick enough to die. 320 00:13:36,917 --> 00:13:38,917 If we could prove it 321 00:13:38,919 --> 00:13:40,251 then we could prove the manslaughter-- 322 00:13:40,253 --> 00:13:42,520 show they recklessly caused a death. 323 00:13:42,522 --> 00:13:44,989 Great, so we got to show they didn't believe in prayer 324 00:13:44,991 --> 00:13:46,825 and they knew the kid could die? 325 00:13:46,827 --> 00:13:48,393 Looks like mom believed in bourbon 326 00:13:48,395 --> 00:13:50,228 more than she did prayer. 327 00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:51,529 I thought they didn't drink. 328 00:13:51,531 --> 00:13:53,365 People like this, 329 00:13:53,366 --> 00:13:55,200 they start wondering wonder if prayer is going to do the trick. 330 00:13:55,202 --> 00:13:56,885 What happens? 331 00:13:56,886 --> 00:13:58,569 I'll be you they're not the only ones ever called God 332 00:13:58,572 --> 00:14:00,872 and got his answering machine. 333 00:14:00,874 --> 00:14:04,943 If she was upset enough to break church law on drinking, 334 00:14:04,945 --> 00:14:08,513 maybe she had doubts about spiritual healing. 335 00:14:08,515 --> 00:14:10,582 Well, how are we going to prove that-- 336 00:14:10,584 --> 00:14:12,283 subpoena her mind? 337 00:14:12,285 --> 00:14:14,519 Maybe she talked to some of the other church members. 338 00:14:14,521 --> 00:14:16,554 LOGAN: So maybe we do get a subpoena... 339 00:14:16,556 --> 00:14:18,923 for the church membership list. 340 00:14:18,925 --> 00:14:21,392 "Your Honor, forget the first amendment. 341 00:14:21,394 --> 00:14:23,228 We want a subpoena." 342 00:14:23,230 --> 00:14:26,397 I wouldn't bet the ranch on that one. 343 00:14:26,399 --> 00:14:28,233 You don't get some information on these people-- 344 00:14:28,235 --> 00:14:30,001 how religious they are, what goes on in that church-- 345 00:14:30,003 --> 00:14:32,303 you don't have a case. 346 00:14:32,305 --> 00:14:34,572 What did that minister say? 347 00:14:34,574 --> 00:14:36,040 They had all been out in New Jersey? 348 00:14:36,042 --> 00:14:37,242 Hanover. 349 00:14:37,244 --> 00:14:39,244 Let's go check out that town. 350 00:14:41,448 --> 00:14:44,315 If they had any doubts about prayer working, 351 00:14:44,317 --> 00:14:46,584 they're guilty. Yeah, I know, I know. 352 00:14:46,586 --> 00:14:48,519 It's easy for you and Robinette and Cragen. 353 00:14:48,521 --> 00:14:50,054 What the hell does that mean? 354 00:14:50,056 --> 00:14:51,522 You don't have kids. 355 00:14:51,524 --> 00:14:54,959 Look, the adult world is divided into two groups: 356 00:14:54,961 --> 00:14:57,061 the ones who have kids and the ones who don't. 357 00:14:57,063 --> 00:14:58,930 You can't understand what a parent feels, 358 00:14:58,932 --> 00:15:01,266 and I will guarantee you one thing: 359 00:15:01,268 --> 00:15:03,368 they loved that kid. And if... 360 00:15:03,370 --> 00:15:05,336 And if they had any doubts prayer working, 361 00:15:05,338 --> 00:15:09,040 and we can prove it, I'll be the first guy out with my cuffs. 362 00:15:10,377 --> 00:15:11,509 Personally? 363 00:15:11,511 --> 00:15:14,245 I don't trust a man who never drinks. 364 00:15:14,247 --> 00:15:15,647 These All Saints people-- 365 00:15:15,649 --> 00:15:17,382 must have been 40, 50 of them-- 366 00:15:17,384 --> 00:15:18,917 they were good neighbors. 367 00:15:18,919 --> 00:15:20,618 They all moved out, right? 368 00:15:20,620 --> 00:15:22,620 Everyone knew they weren't going to stay. 369 00:15:22,622 --> 00:15:24,555 When they came, they didn't buy houses, 370 00:15:24,557 --> 00:15:26,257 they only rented. 371 00:15:26,258 --> 00:15:27,958 They used an old farmhouse as a church. 372 00:15:27,961 --> 00:15:30,361 Work? Commuting-- the city, Newark, Princeton. 373 00:15:30,363 --> 00:15:32,664 Tells you they're not putting down roots. 374 00:15:32,666 --> 00:15:33,965 Listen. 375 00:15:33,967 --> 00:15:35,099 Driscoll-- husband and wife. 376 00:15:35,101 --> 00:15:36,367 Ring any bells? 377 00:15:36,369 --> 00:15:40,071 Nah, but I'm brain dead. 378 00:15:40,073 --> 00:15:41,039 Boredom. 379 00:15:41,041 --> 00:15:43,341 CERRETA: Chief? 380 00:15:43,343 --> 00:15:44,676 You got a newspaper in this town? 381 00:15:44,678 --> 00:15:46,644 Yeah, Hanover Union, the county weekly. 382 00:15:46,646 --> 00:15:48,012 It's right down the street. 383 00:15:48,014 --> 00:15:49,047 City cops. 384 00:15:49,049 --> 00:15:51,115 It will make their month. 385 00:15:55,588 --> 00:15:57,121 Mabel Gardner, 96, 386 00:15:57,123 --> 00:15:59,057 found dead in her living room. 387 00:15:59,059 --> 00:16:02,527 Body wasn't discovered for three days. 388 00:16:02,529 --> 00:16:04,529 Milkman did it. 389 00:16:04,531 --> 00:16:07,098 Makes you want to move, doesn't it? 390 00:16:07,100 --> 00:16:08,533 Anymore of this, 391 00:16:08,535 --> 00:16:11,469 and I'm going to be brain dead. 392 00:16:13,406 --> 00:16:15,673 "Baby Died at Home." 393 00:16:15,675 --> 00:16:18,409 Daniel Driscoll, six years ago. 394 00:16:18,411 --> 00:16:20,411 Two years old. 395 00:16:20,413 --> 00:16:22,697 The Driscolls wanted a headstone. 396 00:16:22,698 --> 00:16:24,982 We have a park-type cemetery-- plaques level with the grass. 397 00:16:24,985 --> 00:16:27,752 It's a neater look, easier maintenance. 398 00:16:27,754 --> 00:16:28,753 It says here 399 00:16:28,755 --> 00:16:30,688 the boy died of influenza. 400 00:16:30,690 --> 00:16:32,123 Anybody do an autopsy? 401 00:16:32,125 --> 00:16:33,758 Nobody thought anything was wrong. 402 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:35,760 Mm-hmm. Died at home. 403 00:16:35,762 --> 00:16:38,162 Says the boy is survived by an aunt. 404 00:16:38,164 --> 00:16:41,165 Eleanor Harding-- she owns a stationery store in town. 405 00:16:41,167 --> 00:16:43,701 I thought everybody from the church moved into the city? 406 00:16:43,703 --> 00:16:46,104 Everybody except Eleanor. 407 00:16:46,106 --> 00:16:47,739 Never showing doubt. 408 00:16:47,741 --> 00:16:50,441 ( scoffs ) Never showing fear. 409 00:16:50,443 --> 00:16:52,043 God's will is supreme, 410 00:16:52,045 --> 00:16:55,613 and if you don't believe that, you're a sinner. 411 00:16:55,615 --> 00:16:56,714 Another life. 412 00:16:56,716 --> 00:16:57,782 It's behind me. 413 00:16:57,784 --> 00:16:59,717 But there must be reasons 414 00:16:59,719 --> 00:17:01,486 why you didn't move with your brother. 415 00:17:04,357 --> 00:17:05,790 Okay, I'll give you one. 416 00:17:05,792 --> 00:17:08,760 Um... seven, eight years ago 417 00:17:08,762 --> 00:17:11,529 I flew with Ted and Nancy up to Albany 418 00:17:11,531 --> 00:17:12,764 for a church meeting. 419 00:17:12,766 --> 00:17:16,667 We hit a thunderstorm, got struck by lightning. 420 00:17:16,669 --> 00:17:18,736 The plane dropped 10,000 feet. 421 00:17:18,738 --> 00:17:19,771 I was terrified. 422 00:17:19,773 --> 00:17:21,806 I thought we were all dead, 423 00:17:21,808 --> 00:17:25,076 And Ted says, "We're all in God's hands." 424 00:17:25,078 --> 00:17:27,111 And that made you stay here? 425 00:17:27,113 --> 00:17:30,615 Well, between you and me, I trusted the pilot over God. 426 00:17:30,617 --> 00:17:34,385 When Daniel died, I joined a group. 427 00:17:34,387 --> 00:17:39,390 We lobbied to have the spiritual healing laws repealed. 428 00:17:39,392 --> 00:17:42,060 ( chuckles ) Doesn't make for family picnics. 429 00:17:42,062 --> 00:17:44,595 Did you know Dinah was sick? 430 00:17:44,597 --> 00:17:45,797 I called Nancy. 431 00:17:45,799 --> 00:17:48,166 I pleaded with her to go to a doctor. 432 00:17:48,168 --> 00:17:50,468 You didn't call your brother? 433 00:17:52,672 --> 00:17:58,509 When that plane was vibrating, Nancy was scared witless, too. 434 00:18:02,782 --> 00:18:05,450 Are you suggesting we neglected Daniel?! 435 00:18:05,452 --> 00:18:07,785 Having two children die is a terrible tragedy. 436 00:18:07,787 --> 00:18:09,087 It's also terribly long odds. 437 00:18:09,089 --> 00:18:11,189 Odds? God doesn't gamble. 438 00:18:11,191 --> 00:18:14,125 What about this fight you and your wife had? 439 00:18:14,127 --> 00:18:16,194 Our religion asks for spiritual progress, 440 00:18:16,196 --> 00:18:17,529 not perfection. 441 00:18:17,530 --> 00:18:18,863 Would you mind telling us what it was about? 442 00:18:18,865 --> 00:18:21,165 Did your wife want medical help? 443 00:18:21,167 --> 00:18:24,168 Whatever my wife wanted, I don't have to tell you. 444 00:18:24,170 --> 00:18:25,603 That's the law. 445 00:18:25,605 --> 00:18:27,238 The law also says parents are responsible 446 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:29,107 for their children's welfare. 447 00:18:29,109 --> 00:18:31,209 CERRETA: I've got five. 448 00:18:31,211 --> 00:18:34,846 I couldn't sit by and watch one of my them die. 449 00:18:36,149 --> 00:18:38,683 If you have anything more you want to ask me, 450 00:18:38,685 --> 00:18:41,486 get a subpoena. 451 00:18:43,523 --> 00:18:46,157 Ted and I had a mild disagreement. 452 00:18:46,159 --> 00:18:47,291 LOGAN: About Dinah? 453 00:18:47,293 --> 00:18:49,260 Do you have children? 454 00:18:51,598 --> 00:18:54,765 A sick child can make you anxious. 455 00:18:56,603 --> 00:18:58,736 Anxious enough to take three drinks? 456 00:18:58,738 --> 00:19:00,671 CERRETA: I thought your church 457 00:19:00,673 --> 00:19:02,673 didn't allow drinking, Mrs. Driscoll? 458 00:19:04,744 --> 00:19:06,477 I'm fallible. 459 00:19:06,479 --> 00:19:07,845 God isn't. 460 00:19:07,847 --> 00:19:09,147 Did you want 461 00:19:09,149 --> 00:19:10,581 to call a doctor? 462 00:19:10,583 --> 00:19:11,849 Did your husband stop you from that? 463 00:19:11,851 --> 00:19:16,888 ( phone rings ) 464 00:19:20,860 --> 00:19:23,761 Hello? 465 00:19:23,763 --> 00:19:26,564 Yes, they're here. 466 00:19:29,869 --> 00:19:31,769 I will. 467 00:19:31,771 --> 00:19:33,838 I'll see you later. 468 00:19:35,875 --> 00:19:37,275 My husband says 469 00:19:37,277 --> 00:19:39,844 that if you have any more questions, 470 00:19:39,846 --> 00:19:43,214 he wants you to call the Reverend Henry Morley. 471 00:19:43,216 --> 00:19:44,715 Spiritual advice? 472 00:19:44,717 --> 00:19:46,617 No, legal. 473 00:19:46,619 --> 00:19:49,287 He'll give you the name of our lawyer. 474 00:19:51,824 --> 00:19:53,224 Go to the DA? 475 00:19:53,226 --> 00:19:54,225 With what? 476 00:19:54,227 --> 00:19:55,927 We've still got nothing. 477 00:19:55,929 --> 00:19:57,762 She had a couple of drinks. 478 00:19:57,764 --> 00:19:59,297 Her sister-in-law thought she had enough doubts 479 00:19:59,299 --> 00:20:01,599 to pressure her. 480 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,900 Drinks, the sister-in law thinking that she maybe might have had doubts-- 481 00:20:03,903 --> 00:20:06,337 that's going to convince a jury? 482 00:20:06,339 --> 00:20:08,306 Suppose she called a doctor? 483 00:20:08,308 --> 00:20:09,874 Suppose she did? 484 00:20:09,876 --> 00:20:12,810 There can't be more than 4,000 or 5,000 in the city. 485 00:20:12,812 --> 00:20:13,945 What do you think? 486 00:20:13,947 --> 00:20:14,946 We start with "A" and go forwards 487 00:20:14,948 --> 00:20:16,814 or "Z" and work backwards? 488 00:20:16,816 --> 00:20:18,883 These people don't have doctors. 489 00:20:18,885 --> 00:20:20,651 Who would they even know to call? 490 00:20:20,653 --> 00:20:22,820 Well, how about 911? 491 00:20:22,822 --> 00:20:24,889 Computer printouts of every call? 492 00:20:24,891 --> 00:20:28,559 They promised two years ago and last year and this year, 493 00:20:28,561 --> 00:20:30,661 and now they promise next year. 494 00:20:30,663 --> 00:20:32,263 We'll listen to the tapes. 495 00:20:32,265 --> 00:20:33,898 What's the matter-- you fellows can't read? 496 00:20:33,900 --> 00:20:34,932 Check your logs at the precinct. 497 00:20:34,934 --> 00:20:37,268 There's nothing in the logs. 498 00:20:37,270 --> 00:20:40,304 2,000 calls a night. 499 00:20:40,306 --> 00:20:41,872 At least they're short. 500 00:20:41,874 --> 00:20:45,977 CERRETA: Grandma fell down a flight of stairs. 501 00:20:48,948 --> 00:20:53,284 Daddy's beating up mommy. 502 00:20:53,286 --> 00:20:55,419 Auto accident. 503 00:20:58,858 --> 00:21:01,425 Boiler explosion. 504 00:21:01,427 --> 00:21:05,263 Want to move to a small town in Jersey? 505 00:21:05,265 --> 00:21:07,898 They got a nice police chief there. 506 00:21:07,900 --> 00:21:09,800 Nancy Driscoll? 507 00:21:11,838 --> 00:21:12,970 Ted. 508 00:21:18,311 --> 00:21:20,678 ROBINETTE: What about a jury's common sense? 509 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,280 We can't indict him and not her. 510 00:21:22,282 --> 00:21:23,881 The mother may be morally guilty, 511 00:21:23,883 --> 00:21:25,383 but legally she's got a good case. 512 00:21:25,385 --> 00:21:26,817 She seemed to trust in God. 513 00:21:26,819 --> 00:21:28,402 Paul, I'm not Saint Augustine. 514 00:21:28,403 --> 00:21:29,986 I can't make arguments to a jury about the number 515 00:21:29,989 --> 00:21:31,622 of angels on the head of a pin. 516 00:21:31,624 --> 00:21:32,890 But the moral issue's in the law. 517 00:21:32,892 --> 00:21:34,692 She keeps her faith, doesn't call a doctor. 518 00:21:34,694 --> 00:21:35,926 Under the law, she looks innocent. 519 00:21:35,928 --> 00:21:37,295 Maybe she didn't keep her faith. 520 00:21:37,297 --> 00:21:38,863 She ran from the apartment, she drank. 521 00:21:38,865 --> 00:21:39,997 Maybe her crisis of faith 522 00:21:39,999 --> 00:21:41,766 drove the husband into one of his own. 523 00:21:41,768 --> 00:21:42,933 If he'd finished the 911 call, 524 00:21:42,935 --> 00:21:44,702 the girl might be alive. 525 00:21:44,704 --> 00:21:46,671 Would be. Strep is extremely treatable. 526 00:21:46,673 --> 00:21:48,306 It won't be easy getting a conviction 527 00:21:48,308 --> 00:21:49,740 on either one of them. 528 00:21:51,077 --> 00:21:53,944 Rabbis, priests, ministers-- 529 00:21:53,946 --> 00:21:55,379 I'm debating theology 530 00:21:55,381 --> 00:21:56,947 with half the clergy in the city. 531 00:21:56,949 --> 00:21:58,716 Tell them the case isn't about theology. 532 00:21:58,718 --> 00:22:00,851 Tell them it isn't about politics, either. 533 00:22:00,853 --> 00:22:02,920 Driscolls seem like decent people. 534 00:22:02,922 --> 00:22:04,855 I sympathize with them. 535 00:22:04,857 --> 00:22:06,924 Because they're decent, 536 00:22:06,925 --> 00:22:08,992 it looks like we're putting religion on trial. 537 00:22:08,995 --> 00:22:10,828 The spiritual healing law shouldn't even be on the books. 538 00:22:11,798 --> 00:22:13,397 Oh, that's beautiful. 539 00:22:13,399 --> 00:22:15,733 Suddenly, we find ourselves in Utopia. 540 00:22:15,735 --> 00:22:17,868 Politics is part of the law, my friend. 541 00:22:17,870 --> 00:22:20,037 You need reminding, spend a day in Albany. 542 00:22:20,039 --> 00:22:22,006 Does this mean we don't want to indict? 543 00:22:22,008 --> 00:22:23,441 Think we have a choice? 544 00:22:23,443 --> 00:22:24,875 Do you? 545 00:22:24,877 --> 00:22:27,845 The mother drinking-- a case of impaired judgment. 546 00:22:27,847 --> 00:22:30,081 The father, he started to make the call. 547 00:22:30,083 --> 00:22:32,016 If we walk away from it now, 548 00:22:32,017 --> 00:22:33,950 looks like we never should have investigated in the first place. 549 00:22:36,356 --> 00:22:38,389 Let's go with manslaughter two 550 00:22:38,391 --> 00:22:40,791 and endangering the welfare of a child. 551 00:22:40,793 --> 00:22:41,959 With a lesser charge, 552 00:22:41,961 --> 00:22:43,828 we'll never convict on manslaughter. 553 00:22:43,830 --> 00:22:44,862 What's better-- 554 00:22:44,864 --> 00:22:46,030 half a win or none? 555 00:22:46,032 --> 00:22:48,799 Yeah, but the logic doesn't play. 556 00:22:48,801 --> 00:22:51,035 If they endangered the child enough for her to die, 557 00:22:51,037 --> 00:22:52,770 they're guilty of manslaughter. 558 00:22:52,772 --> 00:22:54,505 Illinois, Massachusetts, Florida-- there isn't a DA 559 00:22:54,507 --> 00:22:56,774 that hasn't reached the same conclusion. 560 00:22:56,776 --> 00:22:59,143 Leave both charges, and do us all a favor. 561 00:22:59,145 --> 00:23:00,945 Take a plea. 562 00:23:00,947 --> 00:23:02,380 Man two. 563 00:23:02,382 --> 00:23:04,448 Lifetime probation. 564 00:23:04,450 --> 00:23:06,917 No jail time. 565 00:23:06,919 --> 00:23:08,953 BAILIFF: Indictment number 6432: 566 00:23:08,955 --> 00:23:11,922 the People v. Theodore Driscoll and Nancy Driscoll. 567 00:23:11,924 --> 00:23:14,925 The charges are manslaughter in the second degree 568 00:23:14,927 --> 00:23:16,927 and endangering the welfare of a child. 569 00:23:16,929 --> 00:23:21,699 JUDGE: Are the defendants ready to plead? 570 00:23:21,701 --> 00:23:22,933 BOTH: Not guilty. 571 00:23:22,935 --> 00:23:25,836 I'll let you know up front, Mr. Robinette, 572 00:23:25,838 --> 00:23:28,072 I don't see a big bail number here. 573 00:23:28,074 --> 00:23:31,108 One of the charges, Your Honor, is manslaughter. 574 00:23:31,110 --> 00:23:33,010 Yes, I know the seriousness of the crime, 575 00:23:33,012 --> 00:23:34,812 but I'm looking at the other factors. 576 00:23:34,814 --> 00:23:36,046 Mr. Carpenter. 577 00:23:36,048 --> 00:23:38,082 Your Honor, we ask the defendants release 578 00:23:38,084 --> 00:23:39,950 on their own recognizance. 579 00:23:39,952 --> 00:23:42,953 Counselor, you know I can't do that, either. 580 00:23:42,955 --> 00:23:47,158 Bail is set for each defendant at $25,000. 581 00:23:49,429 --> 00:23:52,062 The tenants of their church vis-à-vis doctors 582 00:23:52,064 --> 00:23:53,831 are well known. 583 00:23:53,833 --> 00:23:56,066 The Driscolls have been members for years. 584 00:23:56,068 --> 00:23:59,103 Then why did your client phone 911? 585 00:23:59,105 --> 00:24:00,438 One moment of weakness. 586 00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:01,439 You're a Catholic. 587 00:24:01,441 --> 00:24:02,740 Do you ever sin? 588 00:24:02,742 --> 00:24:03,874 That's sophistry, Lucius. 589 00:24:03,876 --> 00:24:05,976 I'm not here as a Catholic. 590 00:24:05,978 --> 00:24:08,412 I'm here as a lawyer. 591 00:24:08,413 --> 00:24:10,847 You're prosecuting Ted Driscoll for making a phone call. 592 00:24:10,850 --> 00:24:12,917 I'm prosecuting Mr. and Mrs. Driscoll 593 00:24:12,918 --> 00:24:14,985 for recklessly causing the death of their child after he violated 594 00:24:14,987 --> 00:24:16,971 his church's teaching. 595 00:24:16,972 --> 00:24:18,956 A child who was born into their faith. 596 00:24:18,958 --> 00:24:21,025 They want to martyr themselves to religion, fine, 597 00:24:21,027 --> 00:24:23,461 but they don't have a right to martyr their child! 598 00:24:23,463 --> 00:24:26,530 Convicting them of manslaughter won't bring Dinah back. 599 00:24:26,532 --> 00:24:31,135 I want sick children to have a chance at medical care. 600 00:24:31,137 --> 00:24:35,072 I'd expect this kind of prosecution 601 00:24:35,074 --> 00:24:37,074 in Arizona, California, 602 00:24:37,076 --> 00:24:40,144 not in the most tolerant state in the country. 603 00:24:40,146 --> 00:24:42,880 Well, I wouldn't try that tolerance argument in court 604 00:24:42,882 --> 00:24:44,081 if I were you. 605 00:24:47,220 --> 00:24:49,053 Just once, for a lark, 606 00:24:49,055 --> 00:24:51,555 could you bring me in on an easy case? 607 00:24:51,557 --> 00:24:54,124 I don't need a psychiatrist with the easy ones, Susan. 608 00:24:54,126 --> 00:24:55,860 You know what kind of jury we want? 609 00:24:55,862 --> 00:24:57,194 We want 12 people with children, 610 00:24:57,196 --> 00:24:59,129 preferably all of whom have strep throat. 611 00:24:59,131 --> 00:25:01,599 Carpenter's shrink? Seymour Golden. 612 00:25:01,601 --> 00:25:02,933 Who's Seymour Golden? 613 00:25:02,935 --> 00:25:04,602 He gets $2,000 a day. 614 00:25:04,604 --> 00:25:06,971 Compared to him, I'm a bargain. 615 00:25:09,809 --> 00:25:13,077 STONE: in the papers, Mr. Madison? 616 00:25:13,079 --> 00:25:15,045 Didn't see it. 617 00:25:15,047 --> 00:25:16,514 Heard about it on television? 618 00:25:16,516 --> 00:25:18,549 Like I say, I didn't follow it. 619 00:25:18,551 --> 00:25:21,085 Do you have any strong religious beliefs? 620 00:25:21,087 --> 00:25:22,253 I'm a Baptist. 621 00:25:22,255 --> 00:25:23,621 I believe in God. 622 00:25:23,623 --> 00:25:24,922 Thank you. 623 00:25:27,994 --> 00:25:30,044 Baptist. 624 00:25:30,045 --> 00:25:32,095 You think he'll sympathize with fundamentalists? 625 00:25:32,098 --> 00:25:33,531 He worries me. 626 00:25:33,533 --> 00:25:34,665 Makes me nervous. 627 00:25:36,936 --> 00:25:40,070 I think he knows the difference between church and state. 628 00:25:40,072 --> 00:25:41,972 Keep him. 629 00:25:41,974 --> 00:25:45,543 Guys, trust me. 630 00:25:45,545 --> 00:25:46,610 No challenge. 631 00:25:46,612 --> 00:25:48,112 No challenge. 632 00:25:50,016 --> 00:25:52,182 I have two girls, six and ten. 633 00:25:52,184 --> 00:25:54,118 Do you believe parents have the right 634 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,053 to care for children according to their own customs? 635 00:25:56,055 --> 00:25:57,922 I do. 636 00:25:57,924 --> 00:25:59,223 Knowing what you do about this case, 637 00:25:59,225 --> 00:26:02,059 do you think you can be impartial? 638 00:26:02,061 --> 00:26:04,194 I love my children so much, 639 00:26:04,196 --> 00:26:06,196 I can't imagine parents who don't. 640 00:26:06,198 --> 00:26:09,233 In fact, I'm pregnant with our third child right now. 641 00:26:09,235 --> 00:26:10,634 Thank you. 642 00:26:12,705 --> 00:26:14,104 She practically announced 643 00:26:14,106 --> 00:26:16,073 she identifies with Mrs. Driscoll. 644 00:26:16,075 --> 00:26:18,943 I know, but I don't think she's going to like them 645 00:26:18,945 --> 00:26:21,178 watching that girl's fever go up. 646 00:26:21,180 --> 00:26:22,880 ROBINETTE: A pregnant mother, 647 00:26:22,882 --> 00:26:25,616 she'll carry a lot of weight in the jury room. 648 00:26:25,618 --> 00:26:28,252 My research shows that she's going to go with the child 649 00:26:28,254 --> 00:26:30,087 and not the mother. 650 00:26:30,089 --> 00:26:32,289 No challenge. 651 00:26:32,291 --> 00:26:34,358 No challenge. 652 00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:37,127 I think the government ought to keep its nose out of my life. 653 00:26:37,129 --> 00:26:38,662 STONE: Mr. Nicholas, 654 00:26:38,663 --> 00:26:40,196 if it were contrary to your own beliefs, 655 00:26:40,199 --> 00:26:41,932 would you be able to accept 656 00:26:41,934 --> 00:26:43,934 the judges instruction on the law? 657 00:26:43,936 --> 00:26:45,536 I understand the difference 658 00:26:45,537 --> 00:26:47,137 between my point of view and the law. 659 00:26:47,139 --> 00:26:49,707 I'll do what's right. 660 00:26:49,709 --> 00:26:52,076 Thank you. 661 00:26:53,112 --> 00:26:55,012 He's got four kids. 662 00:26:55,014 --> 00:26:56,380 He hates authority. 663 00:26:56,382 --> 00:26:58,349 It's bad for us. 664 00:27:05,157 --> 00:27:07,391 Peremptory challenge, Your Honor. 665 00:27:07,393 --> 00:27:08,726 Four kids? 666 00:27:08,728 --> 00:27:11,028 What's your problem with him? 667 00:27:11,030 --> 00:27:12,096 It's peremptory, Lucius. 668 00:27:12,098 --> 00:27:15,099 I don't need a reason. 669 00:27:20,740 --> 00:27:22,706 The tragedy of this case 670 00:27:22,708 --> 00:27:26,110 is the death of Dinah Driscoll, five years old. 671 00:27:26,112 --> 00:27:28,112 The greater tragedy 672 00:27:28,114 --> 00:27:30,414 is that her death could have been prevented. 673 00:27:30,416 --> 00:27:32,116 The State will prove 674 00:27:32,118 --> 00:27:37,187 that Dinah Driscoll was ill and in need of medical care. 675 00:27:37,189 --> 00:27:39,189 We will also prove that the defendants 676 00:27:39,191 --> 00:27:42,426 denied her that care 677 00:27:42,428 --> 00:27:45,195 and knew its absence would lead to her death. 678 00:27:45,197 --> 00:27:49,266 During this trial, you will hear a great deal about religion. 679 00:27:49,268 --> 00:27:52,136 Nobody's religious beliefs are on trial. 680 00:27:52,138 --> 00:27:55,773 What is on trial is Dinah Driscoll's death. 681 00:27:55,775 --> 00:28:00,344 Did the defendants violate their parental duty? 682 00:28:00,346 --> 00:28:06,417 Did they recklessly lead Dinah Driscoll to her death? 683 00:28:06,419 --> 00:28:09,353 Dr. Stanbeck, please tell the court your profession 684 00:28:09,355 --> 00:28:10,721 and current position. 685 00:28:10,723 --> 00:28:12,723 By training I'm an oncologist-- 686 00:28:12,725 --> 00:28:14,725 that's a cancer specialist-- 687 00:28:14,727 --> 00:28:16,727 and I'm the chairman 688 00:28:16,729 --> 00:28:19,997 of the New York Council on Medical Ethics. 689 00:28:19,999 --> 00:28:22,099 Have you written works on the history of medicine? 690 00:28:22,101 --> 00:28:25,202 Yes, I'm the author of two books on the subject-- 691 00:28:25,204 --> 00:28:28,238 The Healer's Craft and Life Before Death. 692 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,141 Please tell the court about the place of spiritual healing 693 00:28:31,143 --> 00:28:33,077 in the history of medicine. 694 00:28:33,079 --> 00:28:35,045 Well, prior to the 20th century, 695 00:28:35,047 --> 00:28:38,115 people were often desperate for any relief from pain, 696 00:28:38,117 --> 00:28:41,185 and for thousands of years, naturally, people prayed. 697 00:28:41,187 --> 00:28:44,354 In your expert opinion, does prayer cure disease? 698 00:28:44,356 --> 00:28:45,389 Objection. 699 00:28:45,391 --> 00:28:47,858 He's not an expert on prayer. 700 00:28:47,860 --> 00:28:50,728 But he is an expert on disease. 701 00:28:50,730 --> 00:28:52,029 Overruled. 702 00:28:52,031 --> 00:28:53,197 The witness may answer. 703 00:28:53,199 --> 00:28:57,768 A virus can't hear a prayer 704 00:28:57,770 --> 00:29:00,337 any more than viruses respond to leeches. 705 00:29:00,339 --> 00:29:02,206 For thousands of years, 706 00:29:02,208 --> 00:29:05,109 bacteria and viruses killed people. 707 00:29:05,111 --> 00:29:08,212 Then we developed sulfa drugs and antibiotics, 708 00:29:08,214 --> 00:29:10,781 and people lived. 709 00:29:10,783 --> 00:29:13,884 STONE: Thank you. 710 00:29:13,886 --> 00:29:17,187 I'd say she had to be infected for at least a week. 711 00:29:17,189 --> 00:29:20,257 What did you tell the defendant, Nancy Driscoll? 712 00:29:20,259 --> 00:29:23,260 I said if we didn't clear Dinah's lungs 713 00:29:23,262 --> 00:29:26,263 and get her temperature down, she would die. 714 00:29:26,265 --> 00:29:29,299 And how did Mrs. Driscoll respond? 715 00:29:29,301 --> 00:29:33,537 She refused permission for us to treat her child. 716 00:29:33,539 --> 00:29:35,372 Thank you. 717 00:29:38,177 --> 00:29:42,179 Dr. Baumann, how long have you been practicing medicine? 718 00:29:42,181 --> 00:29:43,280 Three years. 719 00:29:43,282 --> 00:29:46,483 Have you seen many strep infections? 720 00:29:46,485 --> 00:29:50,187 Emergency room-- you don't see them very often... 721 00:29:50,189 --> 00:29:52,923 So you're not an expert in strep? 722 00:29:52,925 --> 00:29:55,192 Please, I'm a doctor. Really? 723 00:29:55,194 --> 00:29:57,327 Are you a doctor who can swear 724 00:29:57,329 --> 00:29:59,930 Dinah had been infected for a week? 725 00:29:59,932 --> 00:30:03,300 In medicine nothing is certain, but I know... 726 00:30:03,302 --> 00:30:04,568 Thank you. 727 00:30:04,570 --> 00:30:05,903 No further questions. 728 00:30:08,574 --> 00:30:10,307 What did Mrs. Driscoll say 729 00:30:10,309 --> 00:30:12,209 when you suggested she get a doctor? 730 00:30:12,211 --> 00:30:14,278 She told me Dinah was in God's hands. 731 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,815 Tell the court why you left the Church of All Saints? 732 00:30:17,817 --> 00:30:19,216 Objection. 733 00:30:19,218 --> 00:30:21,218 Relevance. 734 00:30:21,220 --> 00:30:22,303 Your Honor, her experience 735 00:30:22,304 --> 00:30:23,387 with the church's doctrine is relevant. 736 00:30:24,356 --> 00:30:26,356 Overruled. I'll allow it. 737 00:30:26,358 --> 00:30:28,192 Witness may answer. 738 00:30:28,194 --> 00:30:31,895 I left the church, because I'd seen children die. 739 00:30:31,897 --> 00:30:32,930 Thank you. 740 00:30:32,932 --> 00:30:34,298 No more questions. 741 00:30:37,837 --> 00:30:40,971 You were raised in the Church of All Saints, 742 00:30:40,973 --> 00:30:42,172 correct? 743 00:30:42,174 --> 00:30:43,307 Yes. 744 00:30:43,309 --> 00:30:45,509 And before you left the church, 745 00:30:45,511 --> 00:30:48,345 did you believe in its doctrines? 746 00:30:49,315 --> 00:30:51,248 Isn't it true 747 00:30:51,250 --> 00:30:53,984 that four years before you left the church, 748 00:30:53,986 --> 00:30:56,854 you became ill and took antibiotics, 749 00:30:56,856 --> 00:30:59,857 because you believed they would save your life? 750 00:30:59,859 --> 00:31:01,258 Yes, that's true. 751 00:31:01,260 --> 00:31:04,461 Prayer clearly wasn't working. 752 00:31:04,463 --> 00:31:07,631 So the real reason you left 753 00:31:07,633 --> 00:31:11,635 is because you didn't accept the church's doctrines 754 00:31:11,637 --> 00:31:13,437 for yourself. 755 00:31:13,439 --> 00:31:18,275 Isn't that right? 756 00:31:18,277 --> 00:31:20,477 No further questions. 757 00:31:20,479 --> 00:31:22,279 It's a winnable case. 758 00:31:22,281 --> 00:31:24,281 Yeah, listen Carpenter is ready to deal. 759 00:31:24,283 --> 00:31:26,283 Take a plea while you can. 760 00:31:26,285 --> 00:31:28,318 Only if they agree never to participate 761 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:30,020 in the spiritual healing of a kid again. 762 00:31:30,022 --> 00:31:31,255 Does it matter? 763 00:31:31,257 --> 00:31:32,189 They don't have any children. 764 00:31:32,191 --> 00:31:33,423 I don't care, Adam. 765 00:31:33,425 --> 00:31:35,192 I don't want them convincing other parents 766 00:31:35,194 --> 00:31:36,260 to let their children die. 767 00:31:36,262 --> 00:31:37,427 All right, but don't push it. 768 00:31:37,429 --> 00:31:38,428 Forget man two. 769 00:31:38,430 --> 00:31:40,430 Settle for endangering. 770 00:31:41,934 --> 00:31:44,534 You're asking them to turn against their church. 771 00:31:44,536 --> 00:31:45,903 We're offering a plea 772 00:31:45,905 --> 00:31:47,671 where they walk away from manslaughter. 773 00:31:47,673 --> 00:31:50,274 At the expense of their religious beliefs. 774 00:31:52,645 --> 00:31:55,429 Endangering the welfare of a child. 775 00:31:55,430 --> 00:31:58,214 However, in this plea bargain, you agree never to participate 776 00:31:58,217 --> 00:32:01,251 in the spiritual healing of another child. 777 00:32:03,656 --> 00:32:08,525 You can imprison my body but not my soul. 778 00:32:08,527 --> 00:32:12,629 You know, when I was growing up, my parents told me 779 00:32:12,631 --> 00:32:15,432 about the separation of church and state. 780 00:32:15,434 --> 00:32:18,602 How proud they were of their country. 781 00:32:18,604 --> 00:32:21,071 Do you live in the same country I do, Mr. Stone? 782 00:32:21,073 --> 00:32:24,041 Please, reconsider. 783 00:32:39,525 --> 00:32:43,060 They've made their decision. 784 00:32:43,062 --> 00:32:45,963 And I've made up my mind. 785 00:32:45,965 --> 00:32:48,298 I'll see you in court. 786 00:32:53,472 --> 00:32:56,073 I heal with prayer. 787 00:32:56,075 --> 00:32:57,341 It didn't heal Dinah. 788 00:32:57,343 --> 00:32:58,675 Her fever went down. 789 00:32:58,677 --> 00:33:00,077 And she died. 790 00:33:00,079 --> 00:33:01,144 Did you ever go to a doctor? 791 00:33:01,146 --> 00:33:02,412 No. 792 00:33:02,414 --> 00:33:04,081 Do you wear glasses. 793 00:33:04,083 --> 00:33:06,149 I saw an optometrist. 794 00:33:06,151 --> 00:33:08,418 Eyeglasses aren't cures for disease. 795 00:33:08,420 --> 00:33:10,487 They're aids to living. 796 00:33:10,489 --> 00:33:12,539 So you believe that poor eyesight 797 00:33:12,540 --> 00:33:14,590 isn't a part of God's will, but letting a five-year-old die 798 00:33:14,593 --> 00:33:16,560 from something that can be cured like that is. 799 00:33:16,562 --> 00:33:18,061 Your Honor, 800 00:33:18,063 --> 00:33:20,180 I move for a mistrial. 801 00:33:20,181 --> 00:33:22,298 This questioning on religion is impermissible. 802 00:33:22,301 --> 00:33:23,433 Approach. 803 00:33:25,170 --> 00:33:27,070 Your Honor, we're within the limits. 804 00:33:27,072 --> 00:33:28,171 Maybe. 805 00:33:28,173 --> 00:33:30,240 I want this thing settled quickly. 806 00:33:30,242 --> 00:33:32,275 You'll have motions in my chambers 807 00:33:32,277 --> 00:33:34,277 tomorrow morning at 10:00, 808 00:33:34,279 --> 00:33:36,279 and we'll discuss them at 1:00. 809 00:33:36,281 --> 00:33:37,714 And hold down the verbiage, okay? 810 00:33:37,716 --> 00:33:42,552 You give me a hundred pages, I'll be very upset. 811 00:33:42,554 --> 00:33:45,589 Court's adjourned. 812 00:33:45,591 --> 00:33:47,557 Did I misread this? 813 00:33:47,559 --> 00:33:50,660 Well, if you did, I misread it the same way. 814 00:33:50,662 --> 00:33:52,162 U.S. V. Ballard. 815 00:33:52,164 --> 00:33:53,497 The Supreme Court says 816 00:33:53,499 --> 00:33:55,465 "The truth of their religious beliefs 817 00:33:55,467 --> 00:33:58,301 should not be submitted to the jury." 818 00:33:58,303 --> 00:34:02,105 I didn't ask Sharon Barlow whether her beliefs were true, 819 00:34:02,107 --> 00:34:04,391 did I? 820 00:34:04,392 --> 00:34:06,676 No, but you did disparage them with your attitude. 821 00:34:06,678 --> 00:34:10,480 My attitude's not in the transcript. 822 00:34:10,482 --> 00:34:13,116 SCHIFF: Gentlemen. 823 00:34:13,118 --> 00:34:16,486 We're in the clear? 824 00:34:16,488 --> 00:34:19,356 Carpenter's scared. He knows where your case ends. 825 00:34:19,358 --> 00:34:21,625 If we ever get there. 826 00:34:21,627 --> 00:34:24,361 If we do, we're going to lose on Nancy. 827 00:34:24,363 --> 00:34:25,595 Could go the other way. 828 00:34:25,597 --> 00:34:27,731 The father may feel sorry for her 829 00:34:27,733 --> 00:34:31,701 and the mother, religion or not 830 00:34:31,703 --> 00:34:34,604 she told the doctors not to operate 831 00:34:34,606 --> 00:34:37,607 and she had those drinks. 832 00:34:37,609 --> 00:34:39,509 Oh, by the way, Judge Kurland-- 833 00:34:39,511 --> 00:34:41,511 thinks he's William O. Douglas. 834 00:34:41,513 --> 00:34:43,313 Make your motion simple. 835 00:34:43,315 --> 00:34:46,783 He'll never understand it. 836 00:34:46,785 --> 00:34:50,153 This is a fine line, Mr. Carpenter. 837 00:34:50,155 --> 00:34:52,155 And Mr. Stone crossed it. 838 00:34:52,157 --> 00:34:57,561 The spiritual healing defense does not give you the right 839 00:34:57,563 --> 00:34:59,729 to dissect her beliefs. 840 00:34:59,731 --> 00:35:02,265 That's an interesting approach, Counselor. 841 00:35:02,267 --> 00:35:05,535 You want your clients acquitted on the basis of their belief 842 00:35:05,537 --> 00:35:07,621 in spiritual healing, 843 00:35:07,622 --> 00:35:09,706 but you don't want that healing discussed in court. 844 00:35:09,708 --> 00:35:13,210 He can ask whether she believes in God's power. 845 00:35:13,212 --> 00:35:15,712 He cannot imply her beliefs are stupid. 846 00:35:15,714 --> 00:35:17,747 Your clients aren't on trial for their beliefs. 847 00:35:17,749 --> 00:35:18,782 They're on trial for their actions. 848 00:35:18,784 --> 00:35:21,284 Their beliefs are action. 849 00:35:21,286 --> 00:35:23,753 KURLAND: Oh, Counselor, 850 00:35:23,755 --> 00:35:26,490 I'm afraid that's nonsense, and you know it. 851 00:35:26,492 --> 00:35:30,227 No, the law allows testimony on the relevance of faith. 852 00:35:30,229 --> 00:35:32,229 The jury hasn't been asked 853 00:35:32,231 --> 00:35:34,564 to judge the truth of that faith. 854 00:35:34,566 --> 00:35:36,566 Motion for mistrial denied. 855 00:35:36,568 --> 00:35:38,568 We'll resume at 2:00. 856 00:35:38,570 --> 00:35:41,571 On that night, the night before their daughter died, 857 00:35:41,573 --> 00:35:44,441 did the Driscolls argue about treating her? 858 00:35:46,812 --> 00:35:49,746 Nancy said that God had taken one child from her. 859 00:35:49,748 --> 00:35:52,215 She didn't think she could bear it 860 00:35:52,217 --> 00:35:53,483 if he took another. 861 00:35:53,485 --> 00:35:55,619 And how did Mr. Driscoll respond? 862 00:35:55,621 --> 00:35:57,420 I'm not sure. 863 00:35:57,422 --> 00:36:00,223 They asked me to leave Dinah's room. 864 00:36:00,225 --> 00:36:02,225 She... Mrs. Driscoll was upset. 865 00:36:02,227 --> 00:36:06,229 After a few minutes, she came out, and he followed her. 866 00:36:06,231 --> 00:36:07,631 And then what happened? 867 00:36:07,633 --> 00:36:08,798 They were shouting. 868 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,767 Then, the drugstore delivery arrived. 869 00:36:10,769 --> 00:36:12,736 Nancy left the apartment. 870 00:36:12,738 --> 00:36:15,805 Did Mr. Driscoll return to the child's room? 871 00:36:15,807 --> 00:36:17,607 Not right away; he went into the kitchen. 872 00:36:17,609 --> 00:36:19,342 How long was he gone? 873 00:36:19,344 --> 00:36:20,744 I don't remember. 874 00:36:20,746 --> 00:36:25,482 We offer into evidence People's exhibit number 14-- 875 00:36:25,484 --> 00:36:27,751 an emergency medical services tape recording 876 00:36:27,753 --> 00:36:30,754 on the Tuesday night in question 877 00:36:30,756 --> 00:36:33,757 and also an affidavit swearing 878 00:36:33,759 --> 00:36:36,793 that that is a copy of the EMS master. 879 00:36:36,795 --> 00:36:39,629 And we request permission to play the tape. 880 00:36:39,631 --> 00:36:40,764 Granted. 881 00:36:40,766 --> 00:36:42,566 Thank you. 882 00:36:46,905 --> 00:36:48,805 Yes, hello? MAN: 883 00:36:48,807 --> 00:36:49,773 911 Emergency. OPERATOR: 884 00:36:49,775 --> 00:36:50,774 It's my daughter. 885 00:36:50,776 --> 00:36:53,643 What's wrong with her? Please! 886 00:36:53,645 --> 00:36:55,478 What's the problem, sir? She's terribly sick. 887 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:56,846 Sir? Hello? 888 00:36:56,848 --> 00:36:58,715 with fever. She's burning up 889 00:36:58,717 --> 00:37:01,785 Is it going down? No, it's not going down! 890 00:37:01,787 --> 00:37:04,154 what I need you to do. All right, this is 891 00:37:04,155 --> 00:37:06,522 Sir, you've got to stay on the line. ( background commotion ) 892 00:37:06,525 --> 00:37:07,757 Sir, are you there? 893 00:37:07,759 --> 00:37:09,893 ( dial tone ) 894 00:37:09,895 --> 00:37:12,796 Do you recognize the voice on that tape? 895 00:37:12,798 --> 00:37:15,932 Sounds like Ted Driscoll. 896 00:37:17,803 --> 00:37:19,469 Thank you. 897 00:37:21,807 --> 00:37:24,608 Ms. Barlow, there are background voices 898 00:37:24,610 --> 00:37:27,611 and a great deal of static on that tape. 899 00:37:27,613 --> 00:37:30,513 Are you certain that's Ted Driscoll's voice? 900 00:37:30,515 --> 00:37:31,781 No. 901 00:37:31,783 --> 00:37:34,751 As I said, it sounds like Ted's voice. 902 00:37:37,422 --> 00:37:40,423 If Mrs. Driscoll was there when he called 911... 903 00:37:40,425 --> 00:37:42,392 Makes your case stronger for both of them. 904 00:37:42,394 --> 00:37:44,527 Two parents-- joint decision. 905 00:37:44,529 --> 00:37:45,895 The housekeeper, Paul-- 906 00:37:45,897 --> 00:37:48,531 she hasn't been in court, has she? 907 00:37:48,533 --> 00:37:50,567 And not talking to reporters. 908 00:37:50,569 --> 00:37:52,602 Go see her tonight. 909 00:37:53,605 --> 00:37:56,173 My friends, 910 00:37:56,174 --> 00:37:58,742 they want me to make trouble for the Driscolls. 911 00:38:03,382 --> 00:38:06,883 Was Mrs. Driscoll there when Mr. Driscoll made the call? 912 00:38:08,553 --> 00:38:10,754 I don't hate them. 913 00:38:10,756 --> 00:38:13,857 There's something you haven't told us, isn't there? 914 00:38:16,495 --> 00:38:18,895 They have so much pain already. 915 00:38:18,897 --> 00:38:20,897 It was Dinah. 916 00:38:20,899 --> 00:38:22,832 She wanted a doctor. 917 00:38:22,834 --> 00:38:24,768 The child asked for a doctor? 918 00:38:24,770 --> 00:38:28,805 That night, when the other lady was there, 919 00:38:28,807 --> 00:38:30,840 I was in Dinah's room. 920 00:38:30,842 --> 00:38:33,610 Dinah says she feels so very sick. 921 00:38:33,612 --> 00:38:37,547 Her friend Susie's mom gets her a doctor when she's sick. 922 00:38:37,549 --> 00:38:39,816 "Why can't I get a doctor?" 923 00:38:39,818 --> 00:38:43,653 Mrs. Driscoll told her, "We don't believe in doctors." 924 00:38:49,828 --> 00:38:51,895 She's a tainted witness. 925 00:38:51,897 --> 00:38:55,899 It is grossly prejudicial, not to mention it's hearsay. 926 00:38:55,901 --> 00:38:57,834 Two exceptions, Your Honor. 927 00:38:57,836 --> 00:38:59,836 If he says dying declaration 928 00:38:59,838 --> 00:39:01,838 by the victim of a homicide... 929 00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:02,972 Calm down, Counselor. 930 00:39:02,974 --> 00:39:05,775 He hasn't said anything yet. Ben? 931 00:39:05,777 --> 00:39:07,777 Opinion testimony by a lay witness 932 00:39:07,779 --> 00:39:09,779 on the emotional state of Dinah Driscoll. 933 00:39:09,781 --> 00:39:11,014 Emotional state? 934 00:39:11,016 --> 00:39:13,450 You want her to testify to what the child said. 935 00:39:13,452 --> 00:39:15,752 Anyway, that's no exception to hearsay. 936 00:39:15,754 --> 00:39:17,921 Effect of a verbal act on the parents. 937 00:39:17,923 --> 00:39:19,940 Statement not offered for its truth. 938 00:39:19,941 --> 00:39:21,958 You do want the jury to believe it's the truth?! 939 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,861 No shouting in my chambers. 940 00:39:24,863 --> 00:39:27,464 I don't like it, Ben. 941 00:39:27,466 --> 00:39:28,965 The child obviously can't testify, 942 00:39:28,967 --> 00:39:31,968 and let's face it, it is prejudicial. 943 00:39:31,970 --> 00:39:34,471 The witness is not trustworthy. 944 00:39:34,473 --> 00:39:36,439 Not in my courtroom. 945 00:39:36,441 --> 00:39:38,007 Sorry. 946 00:39:38,009 --> 00:39:39,743 ROBINETTE: It would have helped to have gotten it in. 947 00:39:39,745 --> 00:39:41,010 It could have gone both ways. 948 00:39:41,012 --> 00:39:43,713 He said they didn't believe in doctors. 949 00:39:43,715 --> 00:39:45,582 But they both made the call. 950 00:39:45,583 --> 00:39:47,450 I don't know-- I think the possibility of conviction 951 00:39:47,452 --> 00:39:48,852 is on life-support. 952 00:39:48,854 --> 00:39:51,955 In the history of your church, 953 00:39:51,957 --> 00:39:56,960 have the attitudes towards spiritual healing ever changed? 954 00:39:56,962 --> 00:39:59,829 We take biblical injunctions literally. 955 00:39:59,831 --> 00:40:02,966 Have you witnessed successful examples 956 00:40:02,968 --> 00:40:04,667 of spiritual healing? 957 00:40:04,669 --> 00:40:06,069 They're all successful. 958 00:40:06,071 --> 00:40:08,638 CARPENTER: Even if someone dies? 959 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:13,843 Someone lives, someone dies-- it is all God's will. 960 00:40:13,845 --> 00:40:16,713 The soul is eternal. 961 00:40:16,715 --> 00:40:18,715 CARPENTER: Thank you, sir. 962 00:40:18,717 --> 00:40:19,916 No further questions. 963 00:40:24,022 --> 00:40:26,489 Uh, Reverend Morley, does your church's doctrine 964 00:40:26,491 --> 00:40:29,025 ever allow a doctor to be called? 965 00:40:29,027 --> 00:40:31,561 Only in certain extreme situations. 966 00:40:34,032 --> 00:40:37,867 And Dinah Driscoll's situation was not extreme? 967 00:40:37,869 --> 00:40:41,538 If a mother's life is threatened in childbirth, 968 00:40:41,540 --> 00:40:44,607 midwives or doctors may be called. 969 00:40:44,609 --> 00:40:46,009 No other situation? 970 00:40:46,912 --> 00:40:48,645 No. 971 00:40:48,647 --> 00:40:50,880 So if I understand you correctly, 972 00:40:50,882 --> 00:40:53,683 when a mother's life is in danger, a doctor can be called, 973 00:40:53,685 --> 00:40:55,885 but if a child's life's in danger, 974 00:40:55,887 --> 00:40:57,520 it's allowed to die? 975 00:40:57,522 --> 00:40:58,655 Objection. 976 00:40:58,657 --> 00:40:59,689 Withdrawn. 977 00:40:59,691 --> 00:41:02,125 Reverend, do you believe 978 00:41:02,127 --> 00:41:06,095 that all religious rituals should be protected by law? 979 00:41:06,097 --> 00:41:08,031 Objection. Relevance. 980 00:41:08,033 --> 00:41:09,999 Overruled. I'll allow it. 981 00:41:10,001 --> 00:41:14,103 I believe that the government should follow the Constitution 982 00:41:14,105 --> 00:41:16,840 and allow us freedom of religion. 983 00:41:16,842 --> 00:41:20,577 So that if a church doctrine called for beating children 984 00:41:20,579 --> 00:41:22,645 or allowing them to handle poisonous snakes... 985 00:41:22,647 --> 00:41:24,047 What if a religious ritual 986 00:41:24,049 --> 00:41:25,949 called for leaving children naked in the snow? 987 00:41:25,951 --> 00:41:27,584 Objection. 988 00:41:27,586 --> 00:41:29,552 KURLAND: Mr. Stone... 989 00:41:29,554 --> 00:41:32,021 Your Honor, I'm through with this witness. 990 00:41:34,926 --> 00:41:38,027 CARPENTER: Mrs. Driscoll, do you blame yourself 991 00:41:38,029 --> 00:41:40,997 for your daughter's death? 992 00:41:48,607 --> 00:41:51,741 I did what was right. 993 00:41:51,743 --> 00:41:53,109 Maybe if... 994 00:41:53,111 --> 00:41:57,013 if I had a fuller understanding of God, 995 00:41:57,015 --> 00:41:59,015 Dinah would be alive. 996 00:42:00,118 --> 00:42:02,852 Are you planning to have another child? 997 00:42:02,854 --> 00:42:05,088 Yes. 998 00:42:05,090 --> 00:42:07,156 If your third child became sick, 999 00:42:07,158 --> 00:42:10,193 would you go to a doctor? 1000 00:42:11,963 --> 00:42:16,032 Only if spiritual healing didn't help. 1001 00:42:16,034 --> 00:42:19,636 Only as a last resort. 1002 00:42:19,638 --> 00:42:22,639 Thank you. 1003 00:42:22,641 --> 00:42:24,908 No further questions. 1004 00:42:24,910 --> 00:42:27,010 Mrs. Driscoll, we've heard testimony 1005 00:42:27,012 --> 00:42:29,846 that the night before your daughter died 1006 00:42:29,848 --> 00:42:32,015 you and your husband argued about treating her. 1007 00:42:32,017 --> 00:42:33,116 Is that true? 1008 00:42:33,118 --> 00:42:35,218 We had a disagreement. 1009 00:42:35,220 --> 00:42:37,186 Weren't you shouting? 1010 00:42:37,188 --> 00:42:40,089 We may have raised our voices. 1011 00:42:40,091 --> 00:42:42,025 And what did you disagree about? 1012 00:42:42,027 --> 00:42:44,127 Calling a doctor. 1013 00:42:44,129 --> 00:42:46,829 Did Dinah want a doctor? 1014 00:42:46,831 --> 00:42:48,932 She wanted to know why her friends 1015 00:42:48,934 --> 00:42:50,700 had doctors and she didn't. 1016 00:42:50,702 --> 00:42:53,002 And did you want to summon medical help? 1017 00:42:58,143 --> 00:43:01,744 No one's faith is perfect. 1018 00:43:01,746 --> 00:43:04,013 Ted helped me 1019 00:43:04,015 --> 00:43:07,116 to recover my sense of faith in God's will. 1020 00:43:07,118 --> 00:43:10,019 Answer the question, Mrs. Driscoll. 1021 00:43:10,021 --> 00:43:13,089 I'm trying to, Your Honor. 1022 00:43:16,027 --> 00:43:18,161 I was afraid. 1023 00:43:18,163 --> 00:43:20,763 Ted and I talked. 1024 00:43:20,765 --> 00:43:22,899 What did you talk about? 1025 00:43:22,901 --> 00:43:23,900 Mr. Carpenter? 1026 00:43:23,902 --> 00:43:26,069 No objection, Your Honor. 1027 00:43:26,071 --> 00:43:30,907 The law does not require that the witness answer questions 1028 00:43:30,909 --> 00:43:33,042 about her husband, Mrs. Driscoll. 1029 00:43:33,044 --> 00:43:35,144 You may answer or not. 1030 00:43:37,148 --> 00:43:40,984 Ted said he couldn't stand to see me so upset. 1031 00:43:47,125 --> 00:43:50,059 He said he wanted to call a doctor. 1032 00:43:50,061 --> 00:43:53,997 He started to call for help, 1033 00:43:53,999 --> 00:43:56,899 and I told him no. 1034 00:43:56,901 --> 00:44:00,303 He was putting his soul in danger 1035 00:44:00,305 --> 00:44:03,039 to save Dinah's life 1036 00:44:03,041 --> 00:44:05,208 because of my pain. 1037 00:44:05,210 --> 00:44:08,011 Just because of me. 1038 00:44:11,883 --> 00:44:13,883 JUDGE: To reach a guilty verdict 1039 00:44:13,885 --> 00:44:17,954 in the charge of manslaughter in the second degree 1040 00:44:17,956 --> 00:44:20,323 the jury must find 1041 00:44:20,325 --> 00:44:23,926 that the defendants recklessly caused the death 1042 00:44:23,928 --> 00:44:26,963 of Dinah Driscoll. 1043 00:44:26,964 --> 00:44:29,999 As to the charge of endangering the welfare of a child, 1044 00:44:30,001 --> 00:44:33,870 I further instruct you that the Church of All Saints 1045 00:44:33,872 --> 00:44:36,172 is a well-established church, 1046 00:44:36,174 --> 00:44:38,174 and you may not consider 1047 00:44:38,176 --> 00:44:41,110 the prudence of spiritual healing. 1048 00:44:41,112 --> 00:44:44,013 Now you may consider 1049 00:44:44,015 --> 00:44:45,815 whether the defendants 1050 00:44:45,817 --> 00:44:48,985 at a time their daughter was extremely ill, 1051 00:44:48,987 --> 00:44:52,955 sincerely believed in the legitimacy 1052 00:44:52,957 --> 00:44:55,792 of their religion 1053 00:44:55,794 --> 00:44:59,862 to cure illness without benefit of medical help. 1054 00:44:59,864 --> 00:45:01,164 He buried the distinction. 1055 00:45:01,166 --> 00:45:03,066 They will think spiritual healing 1056 00:45:03,068 --> 00:45:04,934 is a defense for manslaughter. 1057 00:45:04,936 --> 00:45:06,302 Why did he do it? 1058 00:45:06,304 --> 00:45:07,804 Eight, nine other state judges 1059 00:45:07,806 --> 00:45:09,939 frame their instructions the same way. 1060 00:45:09,941 --> 00:45:11,407 He practically guarantees acquittal 1061 00:45:11,409 --> 00:45:12,809 on endangering and manslaughter. 1062 00:45:12,811 --> 00:45:14,177 They should acquit on endangering. 1063 00:45:14,179 --> 00:45:16,079 That's what the law says. 1064 00:45:16,081 --> 00:45:17,497 And manslaughter? 1065 00:45:17,498 --> 00:45:18,914 You think they will understand the difference? 1066 00:45:18,917 --> 00:45:20,183 That's not what worries me. 1067 00:45:20,185 --> 00:45:21,284 We know that, technically, 1068 00:45:21,286 --> 00:45:23,019 they're guilty of manslaughter 1069 00:45:23,021 --> 00:45:27,356 but does a jury even want to make the distinction? 1070 00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:31,294 The defendant, Theodore Driscoll, 1071 00:45:31,296 --> 00:45:34,163 on the charge of endangering the welfare of a child-- 1072 00:45:34,165 --> 00:45:36,032 how does the jury find? 1073 00:45:36,034 --> 00:45:39,135 We find the defendant not guilty. 1074 00:45:39,137 --> 00:45:41,204 The defendant, Nancy Driscoll, 1075 00:45:41,206 --> 00:45:44,006 on the charge of endangering the welfare of a child? 1076 00:45:44,008 --> 00:45:45,174 How does the jury find? 1077 00:45:45,176 --> 00:45:48,878 We find the defendant not guilty. 1078 00:45:48,880 --> 00:45:51,180 The defendant, Theodore Driscoll, 1079 00:45:51,182 --> 00:45:54,183 on the charge of manslaughter in the second degree-- 1080 00:45:54,185 --> 00:45:56,085 how does the jury find? 1081 00:45:56,087 --> 00:45:58,988 We find the defendant 1082 00:45:58,990 --> 00:46:01,057 guilty. 1083 00:46:01,059 --> 00:46:03,192 KURLAND: The defendant, Nancy Driscoll, on the charge 1084 00:46:03,194 --> 00:46:06,028 of manslaughter in the second degree-- 1085 00:46:06,030 --> 00:46:08,064 how does the jury find? 1086 00:46:08,066 --> 00:46:11,134 We find the defendant guilty. 1087 00:46:16,141 --> 00:46:18,141 It never ceases to amaze me. 1088 00:46:18,143 --> 00:46:19,475 Juries? 1089 00:46:19,477 --> 00:46:22,078 To weed through a complicated legal minefield, 1090 00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:23,212 get bad instructions from the judge, 1091 00:46:23,214 --> 00:46:25,481 and still reach the right verdict. 1092 00:46:25,483 --> 00:46:28,084 What do you think Judge Kurland will give them? 1093 00:46:28,086 --> 00:46:31,420 My guess? They won't spend a night in jail. 1094 00:46:31,422 --> 00:46:33,356 Then what the hell's the point? 1095 00:46:33,358 --> 00:46:37,293 Well, it's on the books, it got press. 1096 00:46:37,295 --> 00:46:39,962 Maybe next week, next month, three years from now, 1097 00:46:39,964 --> 00:46:41,097 a parent will call a doctor 1098 00:46:41,099 --> 00:46:43,499 because they remember this conviction 1099 00:46:43,501 --> 00:46:45,468 and a child won't die. 1100 00:46:45,470 --> 00:46:48,471 That's the point. 1101 00:46:48,473 --> 00:46:52,475